Encounter and Live
A Bridger Church Podcast
Encounter and Live
Stories of Faith: Abraham
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In this episode of Encounter and Live we discuss the faith of Abraham. We also dive in to a question of if it is easier based on personality types to live by faith.
We hope this episode encourages you as you continue to live life in him.
Welcome to Encounter and Live, a Bridget Church podcast. Bridget Church is a light for the world to encounter Jesus and live life in him. We pray that this podcast becomes an additional resource for you as you live life in Christ. Thanks for taking the time to listen today. Let's lock in.
SPEAKER_03All right, here we are. Welcome to another episode of Encounter and Live. And thank you for tuning in to these episodes of Encounter and Live. It's encouraging to hear, uh, as we were just sharing, it's encouraging to hear that you do listen and you do share it. And hopefully it is not just encouraging to you. It encourages you to take a step in your uh following Jesus as you're following Jesus. But today is going to be a special episode. We've got uh not just the one and only Katie Tuttle who's been with us. She's smart, she's like leaving here to go take over the world after we record this episode. We also have Jacob Ray. How are you, man?
SPEAKER_00Dude, I'm good. Living life. Living life fun, man.
SPEAKER_03You are having fun, man. You're a fun dude. What is it that you would say that it is that you do here?
SPEAKER_00Well, so my the easiest way to say in Bozeman, yeah. No, I run a customer support function for a tech company. So um, that's like the simplest way to put it. But our our tech helps financial advisors bill their people and it's pretty cool. Um, I work with some really awesome folks that are actually based here in Bozeman, which is such a unique um situation because like I've lived here in Bozeman for four years, and like this is the first time that I've actually not had a remote job in Bozeman. There you go. Um so to know that like kind of there's someone here that is doing the things that I had been doing previously, and it's like here in town, it's pretty cool. That's a little so yeah. That's like the the simplest way to put what I do.
SPEAKER_03Man, and knowing you, uh, which is one of the reasons we were like, you should you should do encounter and live, is that that everything you just described is a means to a greater end for you, for the glory of God, the mission of God's people. Um man, you're a smart dude. You've you've done seminary, we're both Liberty grads. Flames. Flame on. Flame on. Uh and are we allowed to say that?
SPEAKER_00Is that like a fantastic four man?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I just I heard it literally at a Liberty baseball game when I was there, and I was like, I'm gonna take that and run with it for the rest of my life. But um you're also an amazing musician. Play on our worship team, help lead worship. Try. And grateful, grateful for you, grateful that you're here. Appreciate it. And happy to be here. Yeah, man. It's a blessing to make disciples with you and honored to do that. So listen, as we speak this podcast in this room, as we record it, we are a couple of days away from the greatest celebration that our country has ever experienced. And we're gonna be 250 years old. I, the 4th of July is my wife would probably say it's her favorite holiday. Uh, we used to do a lot of 4th of July is like at the lake and watching fireworks shoot off around the lake and all that stuff, and eating eating barbecue and doing all that stuff. But I would ask you guys, and we can just chat it up a little bit. Favorite Fourth of July tradition. What is it that you love about the Fourth of July?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I love many things. I love my country, so any opportunity to celebrate it is a win. But living here in Montana, one thing that we always do is go to the rodeos, and it's just the coolest. Uh, the culture at the rodeos is just fun and it feels very Americana. So we love that. I love to bake and just yeah, be outside, be outdoors. It's an opportunity to gather.
SPEAKER_03And so went to the Livingston Rodeo for the first time. Legit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I love watching people get thrown off of animals, but when that thing was over, they did the greatest firework show I think I've ever seen. Because it's like Toby Keith, you know, brought to you courtesy of the red, white, and blue as stuff is blowing up in front of you. I may have shed a tear. I may have gotten emotional.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I shed a tear during the uh national anthem, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, bro. They literally flew the most the biggest American flag we've ever seen around the arena.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you got the rock with a helicopter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man. You're just like, where am I?
SPEAKER_00And it was like like three minutes, it felt like three minutes right before everything got started. It was just pouring down rain, and then it was just like on cue, you know, like God does something or something. You know, uh everything just cleared out. That's sweet. Like you saw the snow on the mountains because it's been so snowy at like elevation here, and gosh, that if that didn't bring a tear to your eye, then I don't think you have a heart.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man. You if that don't electrify your woods wet. But what about you? Would you would you add anything to the rodeo experience or any favorite tradition, something you did as a kid?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I mean I certainly would second the rodeo experience because that was um this was my second rodeo in Montana. We went to the Three Forks rodeo a couple years ago, and that was just as epic. Um, but I grew up in Virginia, where like America was born, which like kind of cool. Yeah. Um so like we used to go down to Yorktown Beach where like General Cornwallis, I think that was his name. I probably should know this. Um, but like where they surrendered, like the British surrendered to America, uh, the newly formed nation. So it was like that was such a part of my growing up that you just went to the place where all of those battles happened, and on July 4th, you just saw it, like all the fireworks and everything cool like that. So that was You win.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's cool. Never mind.
SPEAKER_00America America wins. America wins. Let's really hear. Um, but that was that was the biggest part of my childhood. It was like we would pack up and go down to the beach and um hang out there for the day and play corn school and ladder toss golf, and then like as the sun set, you just saw the fireworks and they I mean all of the patriotic songs too at the same time. But then moving out here to you kind of get this idea of, or at least in my mind, the progression and the timeline. Because I made I used to make this joke that like the road to Montana ran through Virginia because like Lewis and Clark were both from Virginia, and I'm a huge Lewis and Clark fan. Um, which I don't want to take the whole podcast talking about that. Sure. Um, but like it's really cool researching history and seeing what the people who made the decisions about where we got to today, like how that all started in an area that I'm so familiar with and like call home. Um, it kind of just puts everything to perspective when you get to this time of year, and especially when you're at America 250 and you're like, wow, that's good. This is uh it's pretty big.
SPEAKER_03It's a I I hope uh for everybody that's listening, you not only enjoy the fourth, you look forward to it. And from a heart of gratitude, you live in the single greatest country on the face of the planet. And I'm not saying we need to be these like crazy Christian nationalists. I'm saying have a heart of gratitude for the fact that most of us didn't really choose to be born here. It was just by God's grace that we were born here, and we're able to like you're able to freely listen to a podcast about the gospel and about following Jesus in a place like this. And it's just a it's amazing. You're driving around, you're working out, you're doing your thing. Uh but happy, happy fourth. I hope he blows stuff up and blew stuff up and yelled America into the skies as loud as you can. But I also hope that you wake up with the truest sense of freedom that God has purchased for you in Christ way more than any place on the planet can give you, which is which is kind of what we want to talk about today, man. And that is faith. As we continue in our series of faith, which I have like loved it, um, we're talking about faith. And before we dive into the scriptures, we want to point to all the ways that like the Lord is working in the lives of these people through faith here at Bridger Church. We would call them wins, people that things that we can celebrate, things that we can look at and say the Lord is on the move. Uh so what can we celebrate together? What can we point at and say, Thank God for this? Thinking along the lines again of our values. If we are alive for the world to encounter Jesus and live life in him, that's our vision statement. The way that we're going to accomplish the vision would be the mission. We're going to seek to glorify God by loving him with all that we are and all that we have, and by making disciples that cover the earth. That, by the way, is pretty much every church's mission statement. It comes from the Great Command and the Great Commission. These are the things that we are doing. However, like our own flavor is going to come by way of what we will call guardrails, lanes, or values. We value the word of God. We're going to be people of the book. We're going to know what it says. I don't want us to be biblically illiterate disciples. I don't think that's a good thing at L. Okay. We're going to respond. We're going to respond to the Lord. We're going to respond to each other. These are our values. Uh, we're going to be people on mission. Wherever we go, we go with the gospel. We're always going to celebrate that. And then we are going to show up like family. Family, authentic, that deepest sense of community that you can have. And so when we say we celebrate wins, these are actually the things we're kind of trying to point at to elevate like what God's doing. This is how we know we are winning. We're headed in the right direction. And so with that, what can we celebrate?
SPEAKER_01I think for me, what I've been witnessing, we've actually been out of town the past week for a wedding. And what's been cool is being able to share what we're doing here in Montana with people who aren't living here. And just the intrigue that people have. Like, what? They're just, it's so, you know, upside down. And it's cool to see new people's reactions. And it just lit a fire under me and my husband, Josh, a little bit more because we were like, you're when you talk to someone for the first time about it, it's like new again because you're seeing them experience it for the first time. And and it was just like, yeah, it's so cool to be a part of this thing. And another cool element of that through the stories of faith has been in my daily conversations with the family, the church family. I've just I've been in conversations where people are referencing these, these stories of the Bible and their stories of faith, and they're using them to get through and navigate things they're going through. I know Josh and I have been talking about it. Um, me and my friend Caleb have been talking about it. And it's just been cool to actually be able to live this stuff out because it is. It's it's living, breathing, and relevant in today. So those have been some wins personally that I've just been experiencing.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think that the conversation pieces certainly where I or where my mind goes to when it comes to wins, because there are some people that we've been inviting to church that have been coming to church with us. Um that it's kind of been the like, we know you go to church, you come to church with us, that's about it, and then the rest of life is normal. And it's kind of that like standard dichotomy and the divide that everybody we feel like, especially like it's no secret, we're from the south, you can hear our accents. That's kind of a normal thing where we're from, and some of these people are also from um from the south too, and just being able to take those next steps in conversation about hey, like church, Jesus, my faith is not just a Sunday morning activity. Um, had some really great conversations with one of our really good friends that works with my wife, um, just over a basket of fries one night where we're like he he was pretty much like I I joke that I quote Shrek a little bit too much in my normal daily life. Like it's like an onion, I have layers. He is very much like that. Um, but like he very much started opening up, and it was very cool to to see that, and I would genuinely credit it from him saying, I'm gonna just keep showing up to church. My wife and I are gonna keep showing up to church, and just the proximity that he has around people who care and just being in a community of faith. I think that that's been super cool to have those conversations and also people um just at my work being able to say, like, hey, what are you doing this weekend? And I don't feel awkward about saying, I'm going to church. And even though I've only been there been there for a couple months, at the very beginning, it was, I mean, you're still trying to get to know people and trying to figure out like how much can I actually talk about what goes on outside of my like nine to five, and being able to feel comfortable and know like the witness and the the time that I'm spending with the Lord, with the people of the Lord. Um it's certainly becoming more of like a hey, what's like where are you about? And questions like that are starting to come up, which is really cool.
SPEAKER_03Man, I love it. I love it. I loved, I've loved uh in our series, we're kind of highlighting some folks in our church and sharing their stories, uh testimony videos as sermon bumpers. And it's been so encouraging, man. Like last week listening to Miss Kathy share her story about moving and how she's she was gripped by you know Piper's book, Don't Waste Your Life. It was in the middle of a series that Pastor Joby was doing at church, and and then she heard about what God was doing at Bridger. Like, it's just awesome to hear these stories and about how she being 70 years old would say uh the first time I met her, a quick story was at a a player gathering we were doing. It was a Bridger, Jacksonville player gathering when we were still there. And she was sitting next to me at a table, we were having a discussion, and she just said, I don't, I don't want to miss out on the adventure that God has for the rest of my life. You know, like she could retire. She's living in St. Augustine her whole life, you know, she could, but she just said, I'm gonna go and do what God's called me to do. I want to be obedient, I want to take a risk, all of it for the glory of God. Um that is worth celebrating and it's a story worth telling. And I love to hear you both just kind of mentioned it, how gospel conversations are happening. And I think that a lot of ministry should and does emanate from the pulpit. And when I say that, I mean the things that y'all just said about conversations people are having. I had breakfast with a dude this morning, and he said, What I want to talk about is about the sermon from Sunday and how it impacted where I'm exactly at right now in his life. And then be basically, and I was just like, dude, praise God. It's the reason we do life group curriculum derived from the scripture. It's a sermon-based curriculum so that people can dive in. And so with that, we want to basically do that right now, just discipleship behind a microphone. And I think it'd be fair. Um, I think the last two weeks, what we've done is uh flipped, we've done two weeks of Abraham and we flipped them. And we did like Abraham and Isaac uh on Father's Day, and then we did Abraham leaving Haran on last weekend. And so I it'd be fair to just do it in order, uh, not in the way that we did it on Sunday, but just do it in order here. And so what we want to do is just Hebrews 11, we're gonna start in verse 9 and read through some of this. As a snapshot to Abraham, uh, this is truly a story about how faith acts, waits, suffers, perseveres. Faith is necessarily or is is faith is confidence in God's promises before seeing God's results. And we can unpack more of that. But this is Abraham's life. He's remembered as a father of uh our faith, I guess, if you will, because like Paul later would point out in uh Galatians and Romans that uh when we believe, he uses Abraham as the example, like he believed and it was counted to him as righteousness. Same with us. He's remembered uh as the father of faith, not because he lived some perfect life, but because he learned to trust a perfectly faithful God. And when we look at Hebrews 11, we'll call it 8 through 19 or so, what we see is Abraham by faith, he obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out. This is the best part, not knowing where he was going. What from the last just couple of weeks when we look at Abraham's life, just stands out. What is the thing that catches your attention, whether it be from sermon points or your your own study of this, something that stood out in a life group, notes that you made, where can we begin the conversation?
SPEAKER_00I think what's so fascinating about the story of Abraham is like we go straight from Babel, which is like it's it's a no-joke situation. There's a no-win there because people are just peopling in this state, and then you just jump to a genealogy, and then there's this fully fledged human named Abram. And he's just like, he's told go. He's like, okay.
SPEAKER_03Do you think do you think that Abram at that point knew the God of uh the Bible?
SPEAKER_00Like the God of creation, or king of the universe, or the short answer is no. Um, and I think that like Todd, you hit it, you hit something really interesting on Sunday when you're talking about like like names matter when it comes to like we're we're people in 2026 who speak English, and uh you could argue that like uh Genesis is technically two or three different languages removed. If you want to bring in like are Hebrews the original, and then we get some of the interpretation from Greek, maybe even some from Latin. Um, so like we may we're multiple languages and understandings removed. And um, I heard this guy who's really, really smart, DA Carson, say you especially when you're looking at like Hebrew and Greek, there's certain nuances, like English loves the active voice. Like I do this. Hebrew and Greek, or at least Hebrew for sure, prefers the um this was done by somebody. So like that's just one example to point to. We don't always understand when we read things in scripture. So when you point out on Sunday, this past Sunday, like names matter and breaking down like what Tera means and what the Negev means, if you're looking at even some of the things that people around the time of um maybe even the time of writing, even later on in scripture, um, they may not be things that we consider scripture, but people what people said, hey, this actually was like a good commentary of what people believed, they're saying like Abraham had other gods, he was probably he probably was worshiping other things, and that was just an understanding that the Jewish people of the day said, Hey, like this probably was an assumption that we can make. And when he's saying all these gods are dead, probably as you can probably expand from other parts of scripture, when you look at the story of uh Elijah in uh in the book of Kings, like where he's like, Hey, what what's your God doing? Is he relieving himself? Like, my God's active in here. Yeah, um, so there's probably some parallels there, but he's he hears an active God saying, Go. And he's like, I never heard a God speak, yeah, or a non-human speak. For sure. So I'm probably gonna listen. Um, so to make a short story long. No, I don't think he probab I don't think he understood that this was Yahweh. No. Um, as we later see that Moses encounters.
SPEAKER_01He might have not understood, but he knew it was different. And that's what I think is cool. Because his past experiences of these different gods, he knew when this vo voice spoke that it was different. And so it's almost like his experience has led him to be obedient because he's known what's exactly not real, what's not the truth. So that's just it's interesting for sure.
SPEAKER_03And as you continue to read through like the Genesis accounts, uh, I made mention of this on Sunday too. It's like the Lord just kind of shows up in his living room and just sits down and has a conversation with him. This is different for us because like I do have an encounter with the living God by faith through the Spirit of God who dwells inside of me. But it just seems like, as a matter of fact, at one point, three brothers show up and they're called by one name, and that is the Lord. And they're the ones that are having a conversation with them and that are like, You're you're what we're gonna be back here next year, and your wife's gonna have a son. You know, Sarah, the one who's 90-something years old in there, she hears it, she laughs, you know. Uh the interactions that Abraham has with God are pretty powerful and almost like physical, like personal, physical, all of all of that. But how does the how does the truth that well? I think what the writer of Hebrews is doing as you continue to read, we'll get here in just a second about how they're seeking a homeland, their eyes are set higher. Um how does the writer of Hebrews impact your your very going and coming as a disciple and follower of Jesus right now? Where there is a change of direction that's happening. If the Lord calls you, you know the Lord, He loves you, you're gonna be obedient to the Scripture. There's not just the go with the flow, I'm gonna evaluate the situation, do what's best for me. How do you think it lands not just on you, but on the people that you live with here in the valley? And, you know, just the truth of following Jesus means a change in direction. Something is being uprooted and different. You have a new life, it's not the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's I think it's intimidating for some, you know, to to recognize that because people we we draw to what is familiar. And so anytime you hear that, oh, this is gonna require me to change, or it might be uncomfortable, it can be scary. One thing that you said in the sermon was that God asks us to focus on him, but all we want is the details. And I thought that was so interesting because I think oftentimes God is speaking directly at us and we know the answer, but we're debating with him. We're just sitting there and we're we're going back, is it really you? Because we don't have these like in-person, you know, right in front of us, one-on-one experiences. And I I think that whenever you find yourself debating with God about all the reasons you shouldn't move on something, you most likely are stalling in obedience. And it's just, I think, I think that's the scariest part of it is you know, there's still something you're holding on to where you want to be in control. And I think that's what limits people. I mean it's it takes full surrender, surrender of self. And that's the hardest part about faith, I think. Because everything else in this world tells us, you got this, you you can control your own life, you make your own destiny, you know? And that's the opposite of gospel.
SPEAKER_03I think we try to make very calculated decisions. Like when you think of a simple math problem, just visualize it in your head. It is this plus this equals this. And what we want, and it's I th I think the way that they're maybe trying to teach kids with this common core. What I'm saying is, uh, and this is why I had a really hard time in uh geometry, whenever they would make us do the proofs and all the all the stuff to explain how you got the answer you got. I was just like, I know I got my answer because I I basically you can I can show you, but I can't explain it with words. The reason I bring that up is because God gives us himself. That's it. He gives us himself, and that is enough. And when he says go, is he enough? Is he still enough if he goes if he says, I want you to do something that you're not familiar with? I want you to do, I want you to do something that you're not comfortable with. And listen, that could be anything from like, I'm gonna make my neighbor some banana bread and I'm gonna go over there and just introduce myself and tell him, like, hey, I haven't been over, I haven't said hey. I just want you to know you got a family over here that's for you. We're praying for you. Let us know if you need anything. That could be just wildly uncomfortable for people. And there is, I want you and your family to leave the thing that you're used to, and I want you to go and I want you to move here and live life on mission, do the things that I've called you to do. Either one. Either one. It's like, is God enough to trust and believe, or do you need the equation before you get what it equals? You know, do you need all the steps and details?
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's something you covered too about what it means to be blessed. And I I wrote down, are you blessed because you are a follower of Jesus, which is ultimately why we're blessed, or are you blessed because you have been given blessings? And I think sometimes we rate whether or not we're blessed based on our circumstances. And the reality is it's Jesus plus nothing equals everything.
SPEAKER_03No, that's good. Why is waiting on God's promises often some of the best place in your life where your faith grows? Waiting on the Lord.
SPEAKER_00I think it's sometimes in that uprooting that you mentioned, because in my life at least, like there's like the uprooting sometimes comes before figuring out for you know to continue the metaphor what soil I'm gonna go into next. Um so I think for instance, like when we were moving, like we moved from Nashville, Tennessee to Bozeman four years ago. I had no clue what was going on with my life. Like Allie, my wife, she had a little bit more of a semblance of like, okay, here's what my job's gonna be, because we moved to Bozeman for work. And she had a little bit more of uh more revealed picture than I did. And I was just like, I don't even have a job. Like, I am still applying, we're we don't even know where we're gonna live. But it was in those moments of okay, you're not rooted here. And that acknowledgement of saying, This is not your place, somewhere else is, but you don't have all those that information. And just saying, Okay, like this is not mine to own. This is not mine to figure out, except for what I am given to figure out. And when we get to those points of like what you brought up of those the standard questions of who, what, where, when, why, and how. Um, I mean, I I think of Second Timothy um two, it's like right before, or yeah, 2 Timothy 3, actually, right before you get to the verse that everybody knows all scripture is breathed out by God. Like he literally says, Paul writes, and you know that from infancy, you have known the sacred scriptures, which are able to give you wisdom for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. When we take situations like, yeah, we want to know all the details, we want to know all the things. And when we look at what Paul says here of like scripture is not a history book, scripture's not a science book, it's not a math textbook, it's a book that points to one thing. So, why is it that we think that everything else around us has to have all the details for us to say go or for us to say I'm going to go? If this is the life that we're called to live, a life of obedience and faith, following in the steps of Abraham, if we know that scripture, the things that are guiding us in those ways, it's not gonna have all of the answers we need. Why do we expect everything else to have the answers figured out? And I think that that, in that waiting, that period that I was mentioning, like that's what I clung to of like, all right, cool. I'll have it figured out, I'm not gonna have it figured out. And it was a good reminder of my roots are not here. So in this waiting, in this in-between, I know that God's gonna take care of me because he's taking care of everything else.
SPEAKER_03So I'm about to I'm about to throw something from the bleachers in left field because what you just said kind of got my mind rolling down a roller coaster. I feel like going down it. Katie, what is your do you know your personality type?
SPEAKER_00I don't.
SPEAKER_03Okay, do you know yours?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm high I.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so I'm like more S, but I's in there too. Yeah. I mean, I guess we I'm not I'm less dominant. Uh I'm a five on the Enneagram, which is the investigator, the I want all of the information you can give me before I make a decision. I want 90% of the information before I make a decision. Uh I want, and I've worked with leaders who would say the exact exact opposite. I only need about 10% of the information to make a hundred percent decision. And I'm like, dude, good for you. These are highly dominant, more so dominant people. So the reason I ask it, do you think it is easier for people with these different God-given personalities, that the ways they've been wired and the ways that they've been just the way they grew up, it's easier for people to live lives of faith than others?
SPEAKER_01I think so, yes. I just think of me and my husband. I I mean, if there's anyone that I am in a discipling relationship with more than anyone, it's him, and we take scripture so differently, and it's because we have very different personality types, and his weaknesses are my strengths, my strengths are his weaknesses. It's you know, it's it's all that. Um, but some like the concept of faith for him is hard, and he would be fine with me saying that because he'll admit it himself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we've talked about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's because he's a very analytical mind. He is a he is a math math guy. It's like one plus one equals two for sure. And so for him, it's it's harder to the mystery of faith, just it gets him sometimes because he wants it to make sense. Whereas me, I live in the gray. I love analyzing and thinking and reflecting. And so faith for me feels like freedom, but to him, it's like confusing. So just from that experience, I would argue that yeah, it might be harder for some people.
SPEAKER_03Jacob, what say you?
SPEAKER_00I think that certainly there are wirings that God has given us that make things like faith harder. But I also I I try to hold that in the same tension that if if the dude that was killing Christians named Paul could be changed, then nobody is too far gone. So it's a it's a really weird, like balancing line to walk because yeah, like I I know someone personally who he has he grew up in faith and has since stepped away because scripture wasn't a science textbook. And he said this doesn't make sense, so I can't make sense of it. And then you've also got the people who will uproot their lives, like y'all who have moved across country for you know the sake of the gospel. So you're trying to see that and hold those two things like side by side in front of my face and say, like, how can both of those things be true at the same time? And it's exactly what you're saying of this idea of the gray. Um, but I think that there is certain things that God gives us that he says, Are you actually gonna trust me harder than other people have to trust with these things? So, in sort of a double clicking on what Katie says, yeah, I think that thing faith is sometimes harder for certain people. However, um, if God can change the heart of Saul and make him the guy who wrote the majority of the inspired scripture that we have today, um, then I I don't think that that's out of the realm of possibility for someone's heart to be just as never radically changed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I haven't I haven't done this, but I I bet it would be a very interesting study on the life of Abraham to just walk like through the lens of his personality, like who is this man to watch and see? Like, I think he was a high dominant personality. Like when you think about the course of his life, when you think about like before he had Isaac, he's warring with these other people, uh, going and trying to rescue his nephew, like going and and he's taking care of business, you know, like everywhere that he goes. I think he was probably a higher dominant personality. Therefore, I think people that lean that way only need just a little bit of information to do the thing, you know. For me, I am not that way. Okay. But here's uh here's like the things about faith. Faith is we defined it in Hebrews 11, chapter, or Hebrews 11, verse 1. It's the substance of what is hoped for, and it's evidence of what isn't seen, or the conviction of what isn't seen. Faith is a gift from God. It's not the thing that you muster up inside of you as much as it is a gift of God. Dude, theologians have been debating, like when you look at uh Ephesians 2, 8 and 9, for by grace you are saved through faith. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. That word it, there is that is it grace or is it faith? Is grace the gift from God or is it faith? Yes. Yes, like what God gave you when you heard the gospel was the faith to believe. You know what I mean? Like as a gift. It turned the lights on, it did all the stuff. Now, here's here's what I also know. Because like I'm just like thinking and processing theologically, like view things through the scripture, take the whole of scripture when we're talking about these things. Because so many people listening, neither listening, myself included, want to hear from the Lord, evaluate all of the situation, and then make a calculated decision. And here's also what I know about what it means to follow Jesus. Galatians 2.20. I have been crucified with Christ. I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. Then the life that I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. So the reason I bring up the personality thing, and I heard a pastor say this one time in a staff meeting, and I was like, dude, that's it. As we're talking, we're talking about the Enneagram and evaluating ourselves and how you can use whatever your personality number, disc, Myers, Briggs, whatever, you can use that as a crutch and just be like, that's how I, this is my badge. I am a dominant personality, therefore I am mean. Or I am a uh peacemaker, therefore I'm way too I you can run me over, but I love you. You know, you can use that as a crutch. Or you can view things through the lens of Galatians 2.20. You have died to yourself, and hopefully, all of these Myers Briggs and all these personality tests are just giving you a better language by which you can deny yourself with.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03So for me, yeah, being the five, when I was sensed a call to go, I was like, dude, nah. Nah. Like to come out here and play a church, I was like, I I instantly saw all the dollar signs that were gonna go into the negative. I instantly saw, I think my wife and my children are gonna hate that, so we're not gonna do that. I instantly saw, I don't have what it takes. Like, I'm I'm not a good enough leader to do all the things, man, just came up. And then when it I heard other voices that were like, no, Todd, like we affirm what God's doing in your life. Then I began to just look into the weeds. It costs too much money to live in Bozeman, you know, like I'm gonna have to, it's gonna cost this much money to plant the church. And I just, but I could not allow that, like business-wise, it would have been dumb. If you were to sit here with Pastor Joby and like look specifically just on paper at what God called us to do, it doesn't make sense that he would send 60 people from another place to go and start another thing. But we're not like when you talk about the church, it's not like you're our people. We're God's people. And we go where he says go, right? And so those are the things that, like, when you were talking just a minute ago, I was like, I wonder if it's easier for people with specific personalities to live lives, quote unquote, by faith. But then, like, think with me here through the layers of scripture and theologically. If you are living a life by faith, period, you have actually died to yourself. Right. And God's giving you a new, a new life, you're a new creation. So don't just like succumb to the way that you wired, quote unquote, and trust God.
SPEAKER_01Well, and what's so cool too is you can you can trust that God knows you, He created you the way He created you. So you really think He's not gonna meet you where you're at or how you how you need to be told things, He's going to meet you there if you allow it, but it it does involve that surrender. And so, yeah, it's it's a it's a yes and no type type answer for sure.
SPEAKER_00And I think because it is a yes and no, like you can look at the people who are like, Yep, I'm gonna do it, but then I think that you hear Jesus' words of counting the cost in in the gospels of like you have to balance because there's something holy in I'm going to move with faith, but I'm also gonna move with wisdom.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And obviously, there is certainly some discernment that comes with, well, what does wisdom look like in certain situations? But when we look at these personality types, and certainly this gets into psychology and philosophy, but like the idea is some of these are on the upside of the pendulum swing. They're not centered. And when you're looking at, okay, what does my personality type say? The goal is not to wear it like you said as a badge. It's how can I, as a believer, as someone who says, I'm I am crucified with Christ, it's no longer I who live. How can I walk in a place that is moving that pendulum back to neutral in the terms of the personality type? Because there is a balance that we have to walk as people who say, Yes, I've been identified on this arbitrary at sometimes scale, but this is who God says I am. And when we start to realize that those things, those scales identify weaknesses and blind spots, that's where God can really start to work and move and get us to open our eyes to the beauty that he says, you're not who you are today, you can move forward. You are not gonna stay the same.
SPEAKER_03That is a good point about um common sense, wisdom. Common sense is common grace that is often pointed out by other people in your life. You know, if you if you make some decision, you think you're gonna do this and that and the other for God, then praise God. However, I hope you do have other voices in your life that are gonna help you evaluate like what is wise. Is now the time to do that? You know, it's some of that, some of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00The best question I ever heard on that is that God or is that last night's pizza?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's true.
SPEAKER_00Because yeah, you can you can have something burning in your stomach, and it may not be your heart, it may actually just be heartburn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I also think I just want to say too, there is personalities in the Bible. These Abraham has a personality type, right? And so do all the other people in the scripture. And so maybe Abraham's story doesn't it encourages you in the way that you can respect it, you can. Honor it, you can learn from it, but maybe you don't relate to Abraham as much. Keep reading the Bible.
SPEAKER_04That's good.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna find someone that matches how you would have maybe responded, and you'll be really encouraged and empowered by them. I think, I think that's the coolest part about scripture is that God doesn't just choose one type of person. He also doesn't obviously choose the buttoned up perfect person. And so it's like the more you dive into scripture, the more that you can understand, like, oh, Abraham's just like my friend Kathy, and I'm more like Peter. You know?
SPEAKER_00So it's like So you've taken out a sword, you've cut somebody's ear off. Is that what you're trying to say here, Katie?
SPEAKER_01Uh, not yet. But sometimes I can be tempting.
SPEAKER_03I do think it's important to also, before we like move to the next kind of point, is uh do not think that a move or an act of faith is just some massive thing. Kathy pointed it out in the her testimony video. She was like, Your next step of faith may be joining a life group. Your next step of faith may be looking at that Bible reading plan on the app and going, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna dive into this. I'm gonna figure out the time that I'm gonna do it every day, and I just want to hear from the Lord. Uh, it may be going and reconciling a relationship, or it could be like, man, I truly sense that through the relationships that I have in South Africa, that I'm gonna go and partner with that ministry so that we can continue to just make disciples there, you know? And praise God for every bit of it because all of it brings God glory.
SPEAKER_00And I think that there's certainly just to like append quickly to that, like we've been so enchant, over enchanted and almost over-romanticizing the the grand decisions and the grand actions of faith that we've overlooked the just the waking up at the same time every single day, and instead of opening up Instagram or TikTok or Facebook first, if we are digital users, because we live in the digital age, opening up our Bible lab first. We've over-romanticized, and those are all great things to go across the world, across the country, across the street. But what happens in our heart, if we can't get that on track first, then nothing else matters. So I think that it's such a great thing to also call out those little things too that ruminate in your brain of I could be doing something, or I I feel like God is calling me to just stop saying that word today, or just to say thank you. Like that is just as honoring to God as it is traveling across the world to translate the the scriptures into a new language.
SPEAKER_01That's it.
SPEAKER_00Um, so I think that when we see the example of Abraham in multiple places as we look at what we looked at in in reverse, like Isaac, and then also in in the going, like praise God for that, and also praise God for waking up at the same time every single morning, choosing the Bible over social media.
SPEAKER_03For instance, no doubt. So speaking of Isaac, verse 17, by faith Abraham, this is in Hebrews 11. When he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, of whom it was said, Through Isaac shall your offspring be named. This says, When he was tested, he offered up Isaac. But when you read in Genesis 22, he doesn't actually like offer him. He gets him on the altar, and Isaac essentially like willingly lays himself down and trusts of the Father. So many, so many things there we can discuss, but like an angel of the Lord stops him as he raises a knife to slaughter his son. But when we're reading through this New Testament in Hebrews 11, it says he offered up Isaac. I have many thoughts, but why do you think it says that like he did it?
SPEAKER_00I think that he had seen between Genesis 12 and Genesis 22, all of the ways that God had shown up. Despite his boneheadedness of saying, Hey, my wife's my sister.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Or his wife saying, You can have uh Hagar.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And my maidservant.
SPEAKER_00Despite all of those things when I think going back to when God says go, he went, when God says do, he did. Yeah. And I think that that it makes zero sense to me. I'm not like I'm not gonna sit here and say through all of the study I've done that it makes sense. It's just how can someone say, like, it's my only son, my only son of what we read in Galatians, the son of the promise, that the singular offspring in the grammar, not offsprings, that is the lineage of faith that we live under. He understood it at that time as a physical lineage. He says, Alright, cool. I am dust at this point. Here is my able-bodied son who could beat the mess out of me. But even Isaac, too, I think he sometimes gets overlooked in this. He said, Cool.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man. He was 15, 16 years old, probably. And uh and Abraham was 115. So you're telling me that that teenage kid couldn't get away from his dad who's trying to put him on altar.
SPEAKER_00In the Hebrew culture was considered a man, not like how we are today when like at this point now, what like college age is considered a man of the house or whatever, what have you.
SPEAKER_03He laid himself down. I think in Abraham's mind, like when Hebrew says when he was tested, he offered up Isaac. Uh, when the Lord spoke and told him to do it, it was good as done. Like his response, again, see all the conversation we just had about I need all the details. The Bible even says in Genesis 22, he got up the next morning, he got all his stuff, it took off. Like he wasted zero time taking Isaac and his guys with him.
SPEAKER_00Uh he also said, We will come back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Me and the boy, we're gonna go over there and worship, and then we'll return to you, you know. So, like it says uh in verse 19, for he considered that God was even able to raise him from the dead, from which, figure figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. Abraham looked ahead and was like, if I do this, God made a promise that through my offspring, Isaac, through him, he uh you know, my offspring will be named. So God will just raise him from the dead. Like if God's got a point to this, and I'm just gonna trust him. I trusted him when I left Haran. I trusted him every step of the way. He gave us Isaac when I couldn't believe I was a hundred years old. I'm gonna trust him right here. And look, I hope you can look back over the course of your life and just see the faithful hand of God to bring you to today and go, God, I can and I will and I do trust you.
SPEAKER_01He focused on the promise versus the circumstance. And that's that's the ultimate goal of all of us believers, is to keep focusing on the promise, even when our circumstances are messy.
SPEAKER_03And again, it's anchored in a promise maker, the one who made the promise. Not just the what he said. It's like I can trust the one who said it because he's every single time delivered. Um man, I wish we had more time uh to go through just all the gospel implications of Abraham and Isaac. The mountain that is Moriah, which is Jerusalem. It is basically the place where Jesus was crucified. Uh, a father who carries the knife and the fire in his hands, which is like that that which will bring down uh the fire and that which will bring down the death or the wrath, you could say. The son who carries the wood up the hill, uh, the one who willingly, the son who willingly lays down his life. And then, bro, you point to all of those pictures, and then you get to the point where Abraham's gonna do it. And the angel of the Lord says, Hold on, no, and then there's a ram caught in the thick with his head in the thicket, uh, which is just significant because God provided that ram, God provided Jesus. Jesus had a crown of thorns jammed on his head. So who knows, man, if that thicket was a bramble bush full of thorns, but that ram died instead of Isaac. And my lamb of God, who is Jesus, dies instead of us, dies instead of me. Just a beautiful picture of the gospel. And that Sunday, by the way, a lady surrendered her life to Christ. You know, just preaching the gospel according to Abraham, you know. Um the last thing I just want to end on is the fact that between these two things, there's this mention of these these guys didn't get what they were promised. Abraham actually didn't get the land, you know. Uh it says because their eyes uh or their they were looking forward to the city whose foundations, whose builder of foundations is God. They were their eyes were set on a homeland. Their eyes were set in a heaven heavenly city. And then this Sunday, man, I just talked a little bit about heaven, what it means to fix our eyes up, what it means to point to Galatia or excuse me, Hebrews 12, 2, of look to Jesus, who is the author and perfecter of your faith. You can't set your eyes on the circumstantial things that you think your blessing is, but you have to lift your eyes higher than that because these things are gonna fail you. So, in what way do you guys think about heaven? Do you at all ever think about this city whose foundations have been built by God and just a homeland that have you not yet reached? Do you ever think that way?
SPEAKER_00I think that what I would even add color to that statement, we've been trying to get back to Genesis one and two since the beginning. Um, because when you start to trace the idea of city building throughout scripture, and this is a big conversation to condense down to a couple sentences, when you trace the idea, everything is pointing back or pointing forward to either Eden or the new Jerusalem. And when we acknowledge that this world is not my home, I'm just a stranger passing through. When I think of reorienting myself around this idea of heaven, it's a reminder that the fallenness and the brokenness of that relationship with God, it's coming back around because there is a city to look forward to. That's good. Despite Abram leaving a city, despite me leaving the proverbial cities of comfort, peace, uh, familiarity, etc., it's an idea that points me to heaven saying there is something better than what this world has to offer. And this world's great. God has made a beautiful, wonderful world. We live in Montana for goodness sakes. Yeah. But if Montana is beautiful, if the mountains around us are beautiful, what more beauty awaits us?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, C.S. Lewis says if we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world. Which is true.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say I I definitely haven't spent a lot of time thinking about heaven. And it has, I've certainly fell fallen into the category of it freaking me out a little bit. Um, but I went to Italy last year, last May, and I thought for sure seeing that part of the world would just do something in me. It would satisfy something because you just dream. I mean, that's that's a bucketless trip for so many of us. And I thought for sure that I would just be, I was changed, but in a way that I wasn't expecting. And it was that quote. That quote by C.S. Lewis just sat with me because I was like, I could, I could sit here and I could have the desire and the the goal of just traveling the entire world. And you should, you should see beautiful things and you know, glory to God for all that He has created here, but it will never satisfy. And so I left that trip and I mean, I wanted to come home and I just wanted to be in the Word. And I thought that was, I just wasn't expecting that to be my response. And it was just cool, something as beautiful as Italy, it's still, it's never gonna satisfy. Nothing on this earth will satisfy. So that gives me a lot of peace about heaven. I still haven't, I don't allow my mind to go there too much. Uh, I have things I want to accomplish here. I want kids. I want, you know, I'm I I'm excited for my life here on earth. But um, that was just encouraging that, like, yeah, that that quote by C.S. Lewis really came to life last year for me.
SPEAKER_03So for sure. Often we can become so earthly minded we become no heavenly good.
SPEAKER_01That was so good.
SPEAKER_03And we we can uh we can allow what is here to completely not just grab our affection and our heart, but blind us to the ability to look higher at what God has given. But fear not, we'll end with this. John 14, 1 through 3. When Jesus is like talking to his disciples about how he will die, and there's there's an encouragement of, hey man, I'm gonna come and get you. Don't worry about this. Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God and believe also in me. In my father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go and prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am, there you may be also. So I'm not trying to get you to think about heaven because you're gonna have some mansion, you know, you're gonna have a room in the Father's house, is what you are gonna have. And it's not gonna be an accomplishment of your life, it will be the accomplishment of Christ and the restoration from brokenness since creation and a fall that we're gonna be able to celebrate with him. Like the gift of heaven is not a room and a stay there, it is Jesus.
unknownAmen.
SPEAKER_03So if we love Jesus now, then let us like look to the one who is seated at the right hand of God and just say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna run this race with endurance. I'm gonna believe with every step. Thank you guys for spending time with us today. And uh, Jacob and Katie, thank you so much for diving in. I look forward to doing it again. I think the next episode, Lord willing, is something we mentioned last time, and that is uh just like gospel-centered time management, some of the stuff we talked about with margin and all of that. That very much is it can tell a story of faith and it can create margin in your life to be able to live a life of faith, that's for sure. So hopefully we're gonna be able to do that. Let me pray for us, and then we'll get out of here. Father, thank you so much for giving us the opportunity to talk about these things that matter. I pray that they've been an encouragement, not just to the people sitting in this room, but I pray for the one that is listening right now, who may be at home, who may be working out, driving down the road. I pray that you would just fall afresh with the wind of your spirit in their life, reminding them that they've been crucified with Christ, if they belong to you, that the life that they now live in the flesh, they now live by faith in the Son of God that loved them and that gave himself for them. So encourage them, Lord. And if people are listening and they do not know you, Lord, I pray that they would draw near to you. Your word says that you will draw near to us if we draw near to you. And so that I pray that by grace you would draw them to yourself as only that you only you can. I love you, Jesus. I thank you, and I pray this in your name. Amen.
SPEAKER_02Amen. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Encounter and Live. If you have any questions, need care, or would like to reach out to us, please visit BridgerChurch.com. We can't wait to meet you at our next gathering. Until then, Jesus peace, big love, and give a live life in him.