Encounter and Live
A Bridger Church Podcast
Encounter and Live
Gospel-Centered Time Management
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In this special episode Pastor Todd talks with some friends about a long awaited topic: time management. How can it be centered in the gospel? What is then difference between spending time and investing it?
This is a great episode. Both encouraging and convicting. We pray it encourages and convicts YOU as you live life in Christ.
Welcome to Encounter and Live, a Bridget Church podcast. Bridget Church is a light for the world to encounter Jesus and live life in him. We pray that this podcast becomes an additional resource for you as you live life in Christ. Thanks for taking the time to listen today. Let's lock in.
SPEAKER_00Hey, thanks for dropping in again to an episode of Encounter and Live. I think that uh this is gonna be a great episode because this is like a I don't know if you want to call it auxiliary, kind of sidestep to the norm. Supplement. Supplemental. Uh usually we kind of dive in and talk about from where we are in scripture, but uh we're gonna just, if you will, double-click on something that we have talked about in the past. It came up in an episode many times before this one, uh, about gospel-centered time management. And if I just lost you, just hang in there because this is gonna be the best podcast episode that you've ever listened to. It's gonna be the most practical, most helpful, and here to help me with this episode. If I'm going, speaking of time, if I go clockwise around the table, my left Katie, how are you?
SPEAKER_05I'm doing good. Yes, happy to be here.
SPEAKER_00She has in her hand at the moment this uh this lovely coffee mug that looks like it was made at an art camp by my daughter. But you have purchased this because it's a beautiful piece. Yes. Are you having a good week?
SPEAKER_05I am. I'm excited for this conversation because I'm pretty sure, yeah, we started this conversation on one of the first, I think it was the first podcast I came on, and it's one I struggle with. So I'm excited to listen and contribute as much as I can, but really ask questions, hopefully, to you guys for wisdom in this.
SPEAKER_00You should ask questions. Questions are good. Yes. If you continue to go around the dial uh clockwise, brother Keelan James, how are you? Morning, morning. How are you? Man, we're good. We're very good, actually. Are you having a good week?
SPEAKER_03It's been a great week. A lot of ups and downs this week, a lot of times to go through, a lot of moments that have led to us being here today. Um, a lot of things that just help bring points and bring things to focus for the things we're gonna get to talk about today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and for somebody who not only tries as a business owner, not only tries to manage his own time, but help others manage theirs as well. I'm sure you might have a lot of just practical steps to add. So, and then uh the resident researcher Jacob Ray, how are you this week? Dude, I'm good.
SPEAKER_02I am good. It is a great morning. I have coffee. What else could you want besides Jesus? Rolly poly.
SPEAKER_00Got some roly poly. This is great. Well, thank you guys for being here. Uh before we step in, all of us are watching what God's doing at Bridger. Is there something that we can celebrate together? Like as this is Bridger Church Podcast. We always love to start with wins. I think it's healthy, I think it's good.
SPEAKER_05Uh, something, I mean, I've pointed it out now for multiple weeks, but it's continuing to be a pattern in newcomers to say that there's just authenticity here. And that has just been so like that is genuinely the word I hear every single time with someone new. And it's just so affirming and awesome. Like it's such a shout-out to our people for welcoming everyone in. So I just love to hear it.
SPEAKER_00Same. I love to see people take steps, whether it be I want to join a disciple group. They've been a part of a life group. I mean, they've been a part of a life group. Now they want to start a life group, they want to lead one. Uh, we had uh a young lady named Grace who was baptized. She took that step. Uh, her little brother in the service, like during the salvation invitation, raised his hand, said, I want to surrender my life to Jesus after watching his sister be baptized. Um, people taking steps into serving for the first time, whether it be in production, whether it be on the worship team, like saying, Hey, I want to like be a part of this and sing operationally, kids, kids continue to grow. It's just like people taking steps and indicating, and then also like just leaking the true rumor of we want to head in the direction of starting a student ministry. And then this past week we had 10 new folks that said, I would like to serve with our students whenever we start that. That's awesome. That's awesome. We may have more that are serving than we actually have teenagers at the moment, but I'm into that. If it's a one-on-one discipleship relationship with these teenagers, that's good. That's good stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think to piggyback off of like what people are saying. Um, one thing that I've noticed is like especially being around Bozeman for a while, like the summer dips a lot, especially when it comes to church attendance, and we're not dipping. And numbers aren't everything, but I think that that tells a story of people care and people want to be here, and they make a conscious choice with their time, you know, to follow the theme of today. But they're choosing to say, hey, Sundays matter, it matters to be at church, and it matters to be at Bridger Church for our family for us. And one thing that Allie and I were talking about, my wife, um, we have have seen just like a healthy growth of both men and women showing up to Bridger. And usually the story is more women are involved in church, more women are doing this, but it's really cool to see a bunch of men stepping up and saying, Hey, we're gonna be there. And not just like men showing up with their wives, but like singlemen coming in, carrying the charge. It's been really cool to see that. Alongside like Jonathan and I serve on the worship team together. We have new folks on our roster of hey, who's gonna be here this week? We have so many cool things going on, and it's just showing that momentum doesn't stop just because the standards of a place are setting in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I was talking to Keelan about uh you mentioned like we're not dipping, and that's a blessing because if I'm not careful, I can fall into like looking for the that idol of attendance, you know. But one day soon everybody's gonna just decide to come to church. And when that happens, we're we probably might have a problem. Right roll, you know. Uh everybody's gonna decide to come to church. Easter was one thing, it was like there's a lot of momentum around Easter. We're a brand new church at the time. It's another thing coming into the season we're about to hit, and that's like end of summer, back to school, beginning of fall.
SPEAKER_02Which is like New Year 2.0.
SPEAKER_00Kinda, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think what you're kind of pointing to with a lot of this stuff is the the people are noticing something different, they're noticing something that's missing in their lives, and they're eager to gain it. They they're seeing the community that maybe they have not had before. They're seeing that peace that has been talked about so much, the peace that has been tried in so many different ways that is just authentic and is viable and is on fire here at Brigger. And it's really kind of contagious. People see it, they recognize it. Like Katie was just talking about. These people come in and they notice it right away and they're wide-eyed. They're like, wow, this this is not normal. Like this is this feels different, and I want to know more.
SPEAKER_00Man, and may the Lord continue to bless us with that. Um that has everything to do with the Spirit of God in us, through us, things that we celebrate. You get what you celebrate, and if we continue to celebrate exactly this, then it'll it'll be like uh this is what we want. These are the things we see, we celebrate. This is also what we desire. So, man, thank the Lord for everything that he's doing in us through us to us. I'm grateful to be a part of a light for the world to encounter Jesus and live life in him. But today we're talking about time management. I got a question just to open the door. When you hear that, when you hear the phrase time management, what comes to your mind? Like, what do you think of when you think time management?
SPEAKER_05My my biggest flaw.
SPEAKER_00Your biggest flaw.
SPEAKER_05I hear my husband laughing that I'm on a podcast about time management.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but why like why is it your biggest flaw?
SPEAKER_05I'm so type B. I do my best work under pressure.
SPEAKER_00So procrastination is like a fuel in your tank.
SPEAKER_05I procrastinate.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_05And I also just like think I have all the time in the world. Like I don't, I'm just never in a hurry. I'll get there when I get there. And Josh is like the opposite. He's like, we need to leave 15 minutes early, even though it's 10 minutes away. We have to get like he's if he's not early, he's late, you know? And so he just I I humble him in that.
SPEAKER_00Okay. What about you guys?
SPEAKER_02I think productivity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Coming from, I mean, that was what my world was in tech and still is of like numbers matter. You got to manage your time wisely. If you're not doing like in in the support world at least, like if you're not in the queue, the support queue, like you're answering emails, answering phone calls, like what are you doing? So it's when I think of time management, I think of productivity, like the output of these processes. But I also think of guys like John Maxwell, and I think of really awesome people who have written some really good things. However, how do you hold those two in balance of input versus output?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03All right, two sides of my brain. The right side.
SPEAKER_00You do indeed have two sides.
SPEAKER_03Is the organizational side. The the putting everything together, it's what I do every day. I literally put a schedule together, and then tomorrow I throw it in the garbage and start over because nothing ever stays the same. And so it's something I do all the time. But the left side of my brain looks at opportunity. There's opportunity for all kinds of growth. There's opportunity for all kinds of experiences when time management is done well. And looking for those opportunities is a thing that motivates me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, something I one of the reasons maybe this came up, I just can't, I'll have to go back and listen. That time management came up is because I think about when you say that Abraham was blessed to be a blessing. Okay, so if that is true, then that means like we're all blessed with the time, it's not something that you get more of and I get less of. It's something we all get the same amount of. How in the world? So if that matters, because it you can look at somebody's life who manages or stores their time well and think, like, how does it feel like you have more time than me and you're accomplishing more than me? They actually don't. They're just taking hold of it, you know, they're taking hold and putting it in order because the truth is, if there's a foundational truth to this whole thing that I would pray that we walk away with, is if you do not take a hold of your time, someone else or something else will. Yep. Someone else or some something else will. And when I was a senior in high school, uh to answer my own opening question, I went to something called Student Leadership University. Have you ever heard of this?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Loved you S L U.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Dr. J. Stract, Brent Crow, good dudes. I sat in a session, like I had just graduated high school. I went to orientation in high school, and they give you the agenda, you know, like your agenda, your notebook for the year, you keep track of your tasks, you know, and all this stuff. And I was like, this is cool for school, but what they're essentially trying to teach me, and I didn't like grab it, is time management. Well, I walk into a session at SLU 101, and one of the first things that they talk about with us, first things, time management. And I'm like, okay. And one of the things he said, I'll never forget, this is Dr. J. He's like, uh, this principle alone, if you apply it to your life, it'll put you 10 to 20 years ahead of most of the other people in this room. It's like a quantum leap uh for those who are in college and for even some young professionals that just do not grab what it means to like manage your time. He gave everybody a time management tool. He talked a lot about Stephen Covey. He talked a lot about uh, I think one of the books, I don't know if you just mentioned it or maybe we mentioned it before we hit record, seven habits of highly effective people. Uh he talked a lot about that. And I remember being blown away. Like, why is this not why haven't I done this before? Why is this such a like profound thing to look at your day and go, these are the things that I'm gonna do, and these are when I'm gonna do them so that I don't just waste time. I actually invest time. Um, so yeah, that's what I think about when it I just think about my senior year going to SLU being handed a time management tool or like a you know, just a notebook uh to keep track of my time. Do you guys know of anywhere like where we would grab because we we value the word of God? Do you guys know of anywhere in scripture that you would like base some of the foundation of what we're talking about today? Where you would like run to and say, because I don't think time management's mentioned anywhere in the Bible. However, however, the principle I believe is it's ever it's kind of everywhere. Um, but is there something that you would run to or your mind goes to uh from God's word that stands out?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there's there's two real passages that I personally go to. Um it's the passage in Ephesians 5, yeah. Um, making the most of our time. Um, because I think what Paul says is like making the most of our time because our days are evil or something like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then also I've got Colossians 4 pulled up here too. Um, let your or act wisely towards outsiders, making the most of the time. That's Colossians 4, 5. Um, so when Paul's writing that, those are the two things that really stick out in my mind of like, hey, he's identifying the finite, this the specific amount of time that we do have. Like it's not unlimited. It's as you're given a set amount of time, whether you know how long it is or not, and you have you have the choice to make the most of it or not make the most of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so those that's really where my mind goes, especially in the New Testament. I think um there's a lot more that we could bring out. But yeah, those are the first two that come to my mind.
SPEAKER_03Moses prays the same thing in Psalm 90. Uh, teach us to number our days, that we may gain the heart of wisdom. That's it. You know, we start talking about the understanding of that life is so short, that we're only here for a finite time, and this time is not ours. That's right. Where we put that then matters. What we what we put that time into really shapes the effect that you have on your family, the effect that you have on the people around you, the effect you have on your community.
SPEAKER_05The verse that I have really built my business on, we have it on the contact page of our website. It's Galatians 6, 9, and let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap if we do not give up. Um, I just I don't know when I think of time, I like to always point it back to, am I doing good with my time? It's a little bit of a spin on it, but there's a lot of verses that speak to managing your time to do good for the glory of God. And I always like to think of that when stewarding my time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think it's important here to also remember in this conversation that there's a difference between time management and gospel-centered time management. As we're looking at this thing, there's lots of like we can get online, we can get into a lot of different books and things like that that talk about proper time management and the tricks and the practicality of things that you can do to organize your day. But let's not forget. And I do want to talk about that. Of course we will, of course we will, because all those are important. Um, because they lead to the margin of the ability to keep the focus in gospel-centered time management.
SPEAKER_00No, that's good. Jacob, you just mentioned Ephesians 5, and I want to read it. Because Ephesians 5.15 says, look carefully then how you walk. Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise, but as wise, making the best use of the time because the days are evil. And when we say that something will take your time away from you if you don't, if you let it, that's what it, that's what we're talking about. Um therefore don't be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. One of the one of the ways that you can continue to walk in the will of the Lord is by this this idea of gospel-centered time management. I think that when he says look carefully, you can go, you can go way down in the practicality of like this is what we're talking about when we say like look at your calendar, look carefully at what what are you feeling your day with, and how are you ordering your day with it, you know? Because you don't want to be unwise, you want to be wise, and there's evil all around you, and you can succumb to that evil, or you can like no that I'm I'm focused on the thing that the Lord's called me to accomplish today. So we talked a little bit before we hit hit record two about some of the like, and I didn't know this until you said it about where the first clock came from. So talk to me more about that, like the idea of not a sundial, but an actual clock that keeps time.
SPEAKER_02This was really fascinating. And when I was preparing for this and praying through it, I just started doing some searching of like, hey, timekeeping. Like, what is time and how did we begin? But the first thing that I actually found was in like what was it, 530 AD, 530, this guy named Saint Benedict wrote in his like monastic rule, so with monks and like monasteries and all that stuff back in the day. The the first actual instance of somebody using a clock to determine where things are in the day, not just like saying, Oh, I see the sun at this point, that means it's probably this time. This guy, Saint Benedict, said, Hey, we're gonna fix and focus our um times of worship and prayer around the however many hours they chose during the day. So that was the first instance of the clock and uh ultimately uh like church bells and things like that being used to call people to prayer, not to call people to do things, not to call people to uh build out their budgets or what like specifically to prayer, because that's what these monks were completely dedicated to. So it was, yeah, I have written here this is arguably the first systematic time management regime in Western history, and the purpose was worship, not output.
SPEAKER_00Gospel centered, yes, time management. Uh what do you guys think about when you think about when you hear that? Like the clock that you the the watch that you have was like first maybe first engineered for the sake of worship and not oh how far we've come.
SPEAKER_03I was just gonna say the same thing, the exact same thing.
SPEAKER_00Isn't that interesting, dude? That's so interesting. I didn't uh it's almost jarring a little bit like how far we've come or how far we've fallen.
SPEAKER_05Right. Sure. I mean right, because what's the first thing to go in your schedule when you're busy with your job and your kids and the house. When we talk about losing track, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02We talk about losing track of time. And so ultimately when I wake up, I mean, what was it? Was it Martin Luther, one of the Reformation guys who said, Oh, I've got so much to do, I've got to pray more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I got I got this much to do today, so I need to add an hour to my time. Yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so good. And what do we do? We say, I'm gonna set my alarm an hour earlier so that I can crank X out. Right rather than I gotta set my alarm an hour earlier so I can bask in the face of the Lord. Sure. Why do you guys think we become so distracted by that?
SPEAKER_00Somebody, some one of you guys mentioned, I think it was you, Jacob, uh, productivity is the first thing you think about when you think about time management.
SPEAKER_02We well, we've just had our outcome, I gotta get it. Yeah, we've had society fill everything, every piece of white space up. And I think that, like, not to derail the conversation too much, but to kind of just take a little like Off-ramp, like we're moving in a direction technologically of like, hey, we've got AI that can offload tasks, and it's not for the offloading of peace, but it's for the offloading of more. So we have been conditioned as a society of or to do more and be more and act more and be more productive. And I think that that's really where part of this comes of like we've lost the art of um being with something greater than ourselves. And I know that we as Christians say the greater than ourselves is the Lord. But even the secular society is saying I can push more into my day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I've got all of these tools around me that are optimizing the time that I have here so I can make make it count more.
SPEAKER_00Well, the one of the th the books that has been mentioned that we'll talk a little bit more about is the book Margin by Richard Swenson. Swanson? Swenson? Swanson. Swanson. Uh he talks about how technological progress has hasn't reduced the workload like you think it would. Like, oh, I can just give more to AI or more. It may be helpful, but it actually drives more progress. It actually drives you to more. Like it's like I can accomplish more. Therefore, I have more time to do more of that. You know, AI, the praise God for it. Like it's a great tool and it can be a great tool. Yet, like it can like save you what used to take three days, it can do in 30 minutes. You know what I'm saying? Okay, what what is that gonna do to you? It's a machine, but what's that gonna do to you?
SPEAKER_02And I think the way that you put it of it can save you time, it can take something that you've done over the course of three days and make it happen in 30 minutes, if we use it as a force multiplier rather than uh, hey, this is where we're gonna start and then offload everything we need to do so we can do other things, yeah. Yeah, like that's that's where the fault comes in of us saying, Well, yeah, I can use a technology technological tool to like do things that I mean anything could do, but only what I can do, I'm gonna do. And it when we relook at, hey, technology, great thing, but when it's rightly ordered, and I think like I'll mention it a little bit later when we talk about like rightly ordered loves, um sitting in the right position in our time is what really matters because it accelerates the impact of what we've put in rather than makes us and gives us more time to do more.
SPEAKER_05I have something to add about society, and I think it's a tactic of the enemy to mess with our understanding of time management, to make it about productivity. Uh, one of the most transformative books I've read is The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Commer. He quotes Cory Tin Boom and it says, If the devil cannot make us bad, he will make us busy. And it's such a tactic of the enemy to live in busyness. And I think we talked about it briefly, but there's this difference between having a full life and having a busy life. And I so often, my response when someone's like, How are you doing? And like I just sigh, and people are like, busy, you know, like they just know that's what I'm experiencing. And so I know that whenever I find myself in that rush and I just in the hustle bustle, I'm like, man, the enemy's using this to to just distance me because that's what it does. Like this, if if worship is one of the first things to go, prayer is one of the first things to go because our schedules pack up. We have to look at that as we're at war with the enemy. And I think it's so easy to think, to praise ourselves. Like we actually we we take pride in being busy. We think it means we're, you know, we're we're seeking, we're motivated. Yes. And it's it's the farthest, it's such a it's such a strong tactic of the enemy for for sure.
SPEAKER_03Have you ever thought about using that question as a temperature gauge for yourself? That how are you doing? Are you you know that that busy that everybody always asks, like, oh, you're you're you're busy, that's great. And then they have this excited tone behind it, right? Like, that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like you just said, Katie, when you when you answer that and you answer it with a sigh, that could tell you something.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_03Versus if you answer it and say, say the answer is still the same. Yeah, I'm busy, but there's a an excitement that's underneath you with that busyness, that might tell you how well you're actually managing that time and that busyness. I don't believe that there's anything wrong with the stress that comes from being busy as long as you're properly using it. Yeah, as long as you're properly applying it and it's not a negative in your life.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_03Right? If it's causing a sigh, that might tell you something. Right. But if it's causing you to kind of smile a little bit because it's bringing up the things that you did this week that were awesome, right? That can help you litmit test what that time management in your life really looks like.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And that is that's truly the difference between the fullness and you know, busyness. If you felt full throughout your week, that's that gives a totally different connotation than oh, I was I was just so busy. I I could like it just it busyness feels like you can't keep up, you know.
SPEAKER_02When you say fullness, do you think that that equates to like a depth of enjoyment or just a width of because the way I see it, and the reason why I'm asking is I see like busyness is wide, but fullness is deep.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to look at it. I definitely think it's like filling like what fills you up versus what's just like output, you know, taking from you. Are you doing those things that are going to fill you up? Um, you know, fill up others versus just constantly being something that people are taking from that your work is requesting, you know. That's what I think of.
SPEAKER_00You mentioned uh Colmer's book. I read that during COVID. And in so many ways, man, Comer's he's the man. Like he's got it. It seems like he's got it figured out. It was a it's a great book. I would encourage you to read it. He his big thing in in that book has has to do a lot with the difference between busy and hurry. How would you break down the difference? Like what we've kind of already poked at it. Somebody asks you how you're doing. I'm busy. Like you, it's just become a part of your identity, you know. Just they're asking you how you are doing, and you would identify as busy. Uh, what's the difference between being busy and being in a hurry? Because the book, I can't remember if it's in Ortberg, uh, who first said it?
SPEAKER_02Like uh Dallas Willard first said you must ruthlessly eliminate hurry in your life.
SPEAKER_00Ruthlessly eliminate hurry. Yeah. Okay. So if that's like, oh, I should pay attention to these words, what's the difference? Like, how do you know I'm in a hurry versus I'm busy?
SPEAKER_03It has to do a lot with how you're walking into it mentally. When you're in a hurry, are you thinking properly? When you're in a hurry, are you able to process things at the right rate?
SPEAKER_05Are you able to join God and what he's doing around you?
SPEAKER_03I think a lot of distraction comes in with hurry.
SPEAKER_05Totally.
SPEAKER_03This might be contrary to what we're talking about a little bit here, but busy doesn't scare me. For sure. Right? Busy does not scare me a lot at all. I don't want to get to the end of my life with a full tank. You know what I mean? I want to run this race and be drained by the time I'm done with this. Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_03So I don't want to pretend like busy is a dangerous thing, but what you're placing around it, and Katie, you touched on the fact of like pouring into other people. You can't pour into other people if you're not pouring into yourself as well. There's there's processes to this that rejuvenate you, that eliminate hurry, because hurry is so distracting, and and for me, it just takes my mind out of it, right? And I can't be effective in what I'm doing, which is gonna then take more time. And all of those types of things just get to the point where I'm not being an effective person. If I'm getting there, then I'm then there's alarm bells running off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I the more I like think about it, and I'm just again, I haven't read that book in five years or more, but it is a hurry is a is a heart issue, busy is a time issue. Busy is a you can you're right, you're absolutely right. Don't hear as a result of this podcast, I shouldn't be busy. You know what I mean? I don't want you to have idle time, that's not the goal. We don't want you just to be walking, that's like where the devil loves to play. But I'm saying hurry is almost the elimination of like margin, which we're gonna get to in just a minute. It's the elimination of like breathing room because it's it's starting to affect, you know, this anxiety level in your life.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I have notes from when I read it, and just to create the parallel of the busy to hurry, I quoted this there's a healthy kind of busy that's filled with things that matter and aren't wasted on empty leisure. Yeah, Jesus himself was busy. The problem isn't when you have a lot to do, it's when you have too much to do, and the only way to keep the quota up is to hurry. And then that is where the enemy gets to work when you're in a hurry. Because if you're in a hurry, your connection to God starts to slowly distant.
SPEAKER_02When I think of busyness as vis busyness versus hurry, is for you who are listening to the podcast, busyness could be turning up the volume and listening to it at full volume. Nothing else is going on. Hurriedness is changing your speed of the podcast itself. So I think busyness for me relates to how much volume level is going into my life and how stressed and how much I can't listen to anything else that's going on. Hurried is how much of that am I trying to do all at once. And I think that that's when I think of busyness versus hurriedness, that is the analogy and the or metaphor, whatever, that comes to my mind of like, hey, I can try to fit three podcasts into one session. I can listen to three of Encounter and Live in the same time that I can listen to one.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm guilty because I listen to every single podcast I listen to at 1.5.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And I I mean, you're pus you're pushing down the gas pedal to move faster so you can get more in. And busyness is just, hey, how much of life is turned up?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it could be a bad analogy and we could move on from it. But that's just the way that I think about it. How does that sit?
SPEAKER_00I don't think it's a bad analogy where my mind went is I am I'm not doing good if I'm trying to listen to a podcast and accomplish something else at the same time. If I'm trying to like multitask, I'm gonna listen to this and I'm gonna try to read this book. No, you're not. You know, you just can't you can't do that. Yet often we try. It's like I'm gonna stack now. However, I I do love to stack priorities and passions. I'll listen to a podcast and work out because I can do that.
SPEAKER_02Like I can't, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but when it comes to like I'm trying to, I should not listen to a podcast or be on the phone. Also, I'm trying to play with my kids. There's a difference. There's an emotional, there's an emotional thing there that my mind has to be involved in, my heart has to be involved in. But if you're just like, I'm gonna absorb this amount of content and I'm gonna try to accomplish something else, that can be a that can be a dangerous thing. That can be a dangerous thing. When you guys hear the word margin, what do you think of breath?
SPEAKER_03Space. I would go with space as well. And again, this is where the left side of my brain starts to bring back to opportunity, right? Because if I don't have space in that schedule or in that, then I don't have opportunity for God to bring something in that I wasn't anticipating. I tend to ignore it, or I might miss it. I might miss the opportunity to reach out to somebody that would have been a great blessing today.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, room, room, you know, room to invest, room to to grow, to play. Uh yeah, the space thing, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Breathing room. Space at the end of the day, you know, like where you feel like I can breathe at the end of the day. Uh I know that I'm not getting it right. And this often happens, you know, if I stack the day and there's very little time between things, whether it be a lunch with somebody, a meeting with somebody, a meeting with the team, a meeting with multiple people, premarital counseling. When I look at it, here's where the way my mind works. When I look at my calendar and there's blocks everywhere, I'm thinking, like, I am productive. I'm doing the thing that God's called me to do. There are some days where it's just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam from nine to five or heck, from 6:30 to 4:30. You know, there's just like all these things. And probably around 2:30, when I'm leaving the fifth thing to go to the sixth thing, I start to realize this is too much. Or I do not have enough capacity in my head or emotionally to really invest in these next, this next couple that I get to sit with. Because I've everything that I've done today is just like exha emotionally exhausting, you know? Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04100%.
SPEAKER_00Like when there's no breathing room, when there's just too much, there's not enough time to go from one thing to the next, and you end up being late to the next thing and making people wait on you, some of that, that's where that's where I get like I can feel it.
SPEAKER_03And what does that do to you at the end of the day? How are you doing at the end of that day?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's it's not necessarily like when I think of gospel-centered, I think of what it means to be a blessing to other people. It's not necessarily it is depleting for sure. It's like emotionally, my whatever capacities on E. I also have the wife and kids that I'm now like going home to just empty. And I don't have it's like I go in the get in the driveway and I'm praying, Lord, for the next three to four hours, just help me to give me the emotional, give me the supernatural energy to be with my kids. And often I don't, I do not do a good job at that. I don't at all.
SPEAKER_03I think that's pretty common nature for people not to do well with that. When I'm looking, let's go to the business side of this real quick. When I'm scheduling out employees' time, if I want to burn out a guy and have him quit in the next three months, uh, you could there's a proven time of management way to do that. If I put so many blocks on that person's schedule that they have no room for error, there's no way that they can succeed. They're going to, like you just said, they're going to be five minutes late, which is going to turn to 10 minutes late to the next one, which is going to turn to 15 on the next one. And that's just going to build up a level of anxiety, a level of stress in that person very quickly. And you will burn them down because they will not feel like they're accomplishing anything, even though they are getting a lot of their stuff done, at the end of the day, they're still going to feel overly stressed, like they failed, like they didn't achieve what they were supposed to achieve, which will lead to an absolute burnout.
SPEAKER_00No doubt. Right. And it it uh I don't know if I've ever, I mean, I've I've been in ministry, call it 20 years, and I've never hit a point of burnout. There have been like frustrations, but when I hear people talk about burnout, I I don't quite get it, probably because I've never quite experienced it. And not just for ministers, but for like people that would work with you and for you to be burnt out, you know. Have y'all ever experienced that? A level of burnout that's just like I think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I'm I'm in a very creative field, and creativity is very mental. I mean, creatives would argue that like you got to build the environment. The create, you have to like meet the creativity, it doesn't just come.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so I only have so much of that creative power to give. And from a strategic perspective, being in marketing, I have to consider consumer behavior and how something would convert and also make it bold and different and interesting and original. So there's all these variables at play in your little mind. And if I have three deadlines to hit in one day for three different clients that have three totally different brands and positions in the market, I am by the end of the day, my brain is mush. Like I will straight up tell my husband, can you pull out the steak and we're having chicken for dinner? Like my brain is not, it's just not computing anymore. Um, and so I've had to learn to know what the difference is between gold task and bronze tasks. There's like, I heard this from on a podcast, but it's like you only have so much gold time in your day, which is like those things that are gonna take the most out of you. It's, you know, it's worth the most value. You can't have gold all day long. You you gotta like know what to contribute your gold time to. And that's been a huge helper for me to avoid burnout because I have found myself in a place of like, I'm not cut out for this. And it's like, no, you just can't do it at the capacity you're doing it. It's not sustainable. And that you aren't to fault for that, but you've got to be able to manage your time differently in order to not experience those waves of emotion and burnout.
SPEAKER_00So here, let's let's let's do something real quick. Let's start at the ground level and work our way up because there's a a great point like to get to the theology of the thing. But when it comes to Jim Bridger driving down the road in his pickup, listening to us, and he's like, How is this helpful? I think we do a pretty good job of identifying and talking about the even even about the why, you know. This is we don't want to like let the evil take over because the days are evil. We need we want to do this because God has given us time, everybody the same amount, to steward or manage well. What are things that you guys do? If somebody's listening, they would say, I want to take a step in this area. If God's given me not just time, but talent, treasure, time being one of the things that I don't know that seemed to steward well, how do how do you guys go about that? How do you guys, I mean, we can get into how we talk about boundaries, how we talk about uh even uh uh in in the book margin, there's four areas I think that he hits when it comes to creating margin in your life, breathing room in your life, so that you can continue to breathe life into other people. Uh, what are some tools practically that you guys use?
SPEAKER_03I have to put a lot of emphasis on what I'm focused on. Uh to build margin, to allow the space in the schedule, I have to pay a lot of attention to the things that are drawing my attention, to the things that are drawing my energy, and make sure that I'm not getting to the point where I'm allowing my frustration level or my stress level to be attached 100% to it. Basically, what I'm saying is if I'm looking at my day and if something interrupts me, what is my response to that? What is my response to the interruption? If my response is anger to the interruption, like I'm frustrated with this interruption, right? That's gonna tell me something. I'm not in alignment with where I should be. Versus having the mentality of the interruption is an opportunity, like I keep going back to this opportunity thing, right? If an interruption becomes an opportunity, it creates a whole new box around it. Now, if this interruption is something that maybe God has put in your life for you to pay attention to, now you have the opportunity to devote what he wants you to to that time. So again, when I'm looking at interruptions, I'm really gauging myself and I'm looking at if I'm frustrated or if I'm looking at it as a moment of opportunity. And if I see frustration, that needs to be an alarm that I need to go, okay, something's wrong. I need to I need to tweak something here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, how do you tweak though? What does that look like? If you I love the idea of looking at interruptions as opportunity, but what could you have done differently to make sure that in that moment you wouldn't have responded with frustration?
SPEAKER_03When I put too much emphasis on my own schedule, I know I'm not leaving enough room for God.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_03And we have a faithful father. I know that when I allow that time that he you can you Can start to feel these interruptions, right? You can start to feel where they're at. Um, you can feel when it's an interruption that you need to pay attention to and that you need to lean into when I do that, and when I do that knowingly, I don't know how this plays out, I don't know how it always works, but it just does. My time going forward throughout the rest of it is just more effective. Yeah. When I block out the margin to allow him to be present, to allow him to be the focus, the rest of the things that are on that day's schedule just have a way of shrinking a little bit. I'm more effective in that block, that you know, that that hour block that I might have to go do this tax. I'm gonna be a more effective person in it. And it never seems to end up at the end of the day with a negative.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But it it really depends on how I walk into the moment. If I walk into it with a frustrated or angry heart, it'll be the exact opposite. Yeah, you're on the right. The exact opposite is gonna happen.
SPEAKER_00And that's a good point of just what Christ is doing in you by the work of the gospel, the fruit of the spirit that continues to grow. Interruptions don't make you angry. Interruptions just may reveal what's already in there. What's already in there is just gonna come out. And it and it's same with my kids. Same with my, it's like nothing really makes you angry. It just kind of reveals what's what's already in there. And so, what is what did maybe what are you not believing about the gospel and allowing the Lord just to work in your life? Uh, you just said something like just practical tools. You just said something about gold versus bronze time. It reminded me of like uh the 8020 principle, the Eisenhower tool that he used for time management of like you know, the four blocks.
SPEAKER_02Nalegate, delete, yeah, do and yeah, urgent, important, urgent, not important, not important, urgent, not important, not urgent. Yeah, all of that. Assigning it uh a value.
SPEAKER_00And usually the way that that breaks down is like for you that are listening for me right now, there's a hundred percent of me and what I do. A hundred percent of it. And uh here's the truth about 80% of the things that I would say that are important to me that I do can actually be given away. They can be delegated, they can be it's not urgent today. It's something that's like you can accomplish this at another time. 20 there's 20% of what I do that only I can do, only I am responsible for. When you begin to look at it like that, it's like, okay, I remember feeling this when we came here to plant this church. And it was just me wearing, it felt like 16 different hats every day. And I had I remember as I was trying to put words into ProPresenter, why do I like what is this the most important use of my time? At the time it was because we were getting ready for, and I had like, but then I asked my brother Aaron Fozigan, hey, can you help me with this? Because this is very time consuming. And you're you know you served on production before and you have a gift, and then he did it. And so you begin to like delegate and ask people, like, and in trust, it's dude, there's a matter when it comes to time management, there's a matter of your trust that's involved if you're gonna really do this thing the right way. Do I trust this person? There's a matter of empowerment, there's a matter of like a certain amount of influence that you're giving, all of those things because you want it, you want time to multiply. The only way that time legitimately multiplies is when you involve other people in it.
SPEAKER_05Totally true.
SPEAKER_00When you involve like, and if you just think this is my world, I'm living in it, I'm gonna accomplish the things that I'm gonna accomplish, you're gonna realize real quick, yeah, life really is a vapor. But like if you're not just spending your time, but you're investing your time, what do you do when you invest? You see a thing and you put something into it only because you think it's gonna multiply itself and there's gonna be a return. The same thing with time. Don't just spend it, invest it.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think that that brings up a point in my mind of management versus stewardship. When I think of managing, that isn't I'm an owner of this. Like I own this, this is mine, but stewardship is hey, I'm just like I've taken what somebody else has given me and I'm trying to make the best of it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's the difference between owning your house and renting your house. You typically treat what um with somebody else's with a little bit more care, at least I do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um so when I flip the script on, hey, this is this is a gift that God's given me to make the best use of, it's not something I've created, it's not something I've bought from somebody. It's hey, I'm a borrower in this state.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, that kind of flips things and it almost takes a little bit of pressure off. I don't, I like I can't explain where that pressure, like the depressurization ends up being, but it's saying, hey, instead of adding a list of, okay, God's first, so everything else comes. I look at it more of like a spoke or a wheel with spokes. This the center hub is God. Everything explodes and emanates from God. Just like what Augustine used to, or what Augustine said, uh, love God and do as you're pleased for the heart that loves. Uh, God is not gonna displease the one that it loves. And it's an emanation of, hey, because I have God at the center of everything, because I know that He has gifted me with this, that is the only way that I can realize, hey, I'm like, I'm finite. Someone else is gonna be managing this resource after me, and I just have the ability to do my best with it, and I'm just a vapor here, just like you were saying, I'm just a vapor. But ultimately, I'm a vapor with a cause, and that's to glorify God. Putting him at the center of that rather than setting up a list of priorities. That is what fuels me to then say, all right, cool. I have opportunity, I have margin, I have the ability to move out from here saying I may not have it, but God does.
SPEAKER_00That's good.
SPEAKER_05For some reason, I think we feel unworthy to acknowledge that what we are trying to hold on to is actually not value, a value use of our time. I struggle with that. Delegating, I'm I've gotten better over the years for sure, and business specifically, but it's hard for me to admit when I feel like it's my responsibility, even though, like, who's putting that pressure on me outside of myself? And then it's true that in order to step into what God has for you and the true calling he has on your life, the true gifts and talents that he wants you to use, you've got to recognize that in order for him to get you where you're gonna do the best work for him, he you have to strip away these little monotonous things that you've been holding on to. And I think I've struggled with that. I mean, outside of delegating being a tool, I would say that communication, like admitting that I just don't have the capacity for something. I've had to do this with my husband a lot. Our house, you know, I I put the pressure on myself to be the one that makes it a home, make, you know, the homemaker. I want to nurture that well, I want to steward it well. Uh, and there's just oftentimes where I have a busy work day or something and I didn't get to the laundry or I didn't get to dinner. And obviously we we both do these things, but for some reason I've put the pressure on myself to be the one that has to do that, even though he's never expected that of me. And so now it's gotten to the place of hey, I like let's help each other out here. And we just communicate that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And dinner's now not this like stressful thing where neither of us planned or like prepped, thought out something. You know, it's we we've discussed it. And then it's a thing that can be lifted off your shoulders. Um, so that's another thing I'm learning is like communicating when you are in need of someone to just know that, like, hey, this is on my radar. I don't want you to think that I just dropped the ball or I forgot. I just I had things that came up today that I didn't expect and I can't get to this. Um, allowing yourself to have permission to be open about that and not feel bad.
SPEAKER_02Well, but it's remembering your limits.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02And remembering and reminding you of saying or saying to yourself, like, I'm not God.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_02So that I I have I have boundaries as a human. Um, but I mean, like it says in Psalm 90, verse 1, the eternal God is uh he dwells in his, like he's in his dwelling place. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And he wants you to your time, talents, and treasures to the best of your ability. Like that's what we're meant to do here on earth is to steward those things as well as we can. Like he wants, he wants that for us. And so when you're caught up on things that you should delegate, that you should pass off, that you can pass off, yeah, he's just faithful in that, you know, when we when we finally but it's micromanaging, I think that's what it comes down to is are you can you trust someone else with it? Because you're you're releasing power when you give a task away, you're trusting someone else with it, which is a whole nother thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, progress without limits will lead to overload. Um so if you're talking to somebody, you're discipling somebody, somebody that may be listening to this, what are the questions that you would ask? Or the very like the simplest form of I'm trying to understand like how you know how you manage your time. Or if you've been discipling somebody and you're like, you're trying to sharpen the axe in this area of their life, what would you how would you do that? What are some questions or things that you would help them with? Just very simple steps.
SPEAKER_03I think I'd be looking at how they're focused. Um we think about the lack of margin, and we've identified that as a problem now. Now we have to figure out how to build margin. So let's let's think about the things that we're focused on that maybe we have no margin in, and now we have to figure out how to get that put in there. A lot of times that for me that comes down to realigning my priority, realigning what I'm focused on. Am I so focused? Let's just go to you know financial, you know, type you know, moments here. Am I so focused on getting to that next step versus being content with where I'm at? Being able to re reverb that in my head can help me put that marginal space back in. And if I am so out of whack, if I am so far off in left field that I just can't see that, that's my first step is realignment with what truly matters so that I can bring that focus back into play.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I would say the first thing I'd want to ask is how much time are you spending in worship, prayer, or in the word? Not it doesn't have to be all three of those things, but like are you doing any of those things regularly? Why or why not? You know, just hash that out. And then the other side of that is if you aren't incorporating those things into your schedule, is it because you feel that there's no time, right? Like is that really the problem, or is it the fact that you don't have a way, a method that you can stick with? A lot of people, you know, they don't like reading, so they struggle to read the Bible, or they haven't found a way to digest the text and you know, feel good about actually comprehending it. So looking for opportunities and tools, resources, things that work for for you or for someone else with, you know, a similar personality type to try to get a pattern in place, a ritual in place where you can you can find yourself going back into the word every day. Last night at group, we talked about um promises that just help us out. And I said that something me and my husband talk about is if it's God's will, it can't be stopped. But then the response is, well, but what if it's what if you're doing something that's not God's will? And Jonathan dropped a banger quote and he said, To know God's will is to know God's word. That's it though. Like if you are living a busy life, a full life where you're you're seeking, you're going after things, you're motivated. But if you're constantly doing it out of your own power and control, you suddenly, yeah, you will get caught in this like lack of margin and you'll put all that pressure on yourself. And it's an I, I, I game. But if you just find yourself with the Lord, like you've got to connect first with him, and then he makes the path straight, like he establishes our steps. And so I think that that's like the double whammy there. It's like make the time for the Lord and then trust that his will is going to come to fruition because it cannot be stopped, especially if you are, you know, got a you've got a direct connection to him. So you just have to steward that time first and foremost.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a hundred percent. So let's think real quick practically about your day. I would ask, how much how much time, like if you were to pull out your phone and we could just look at the screen time thing, like how much time is on that? Okay, how much time is there? Because I'm not I'm not saying that like Instagram is a wasted tool. It can be wasted time. This is a fact, okay? The reason I'm thinking about this is because these have been questions that have been asked of me. These are questions that I would ask other men, like how much time if you are responsible in your home, men, especially if the Lord has given you the responsibility of not just a home, but a wife and a job and all of these things, the more responsibility you have in your life, probably the more weight you feel listening to a conversation like this. If you just, you know, you're at that a different point in your life to where you're you're like much younger, you don't have kids, you're not married yet. You may think, I got a little free, I got like a little more freedom, and I don't feel the weight of this. My encouragement to you, if you're the young man listening to this, is grab this now. Grab it right now and just own it. That way, as the Lord gives you more responsibility, you will not feel the weight of the guy who may be in his 40 with three kids, his job, and he's weighed down every day with the lack of time he feels like he has, versus like right now, just grab it, own it. But one, how much time are you spending on your phone? Two, do you actually have a calendar? Do you actually keep some type of simple tool? If it's a notebook, if you're writing out like the things that you were doing today and actually analyzing, I don't have to do this today versus, you know, because sometimes you feel the you feel this like pressure and the weight of I have to get this done today. This has to be done today. When maybe it actually doesn't, you know, maybe it actually doesn't. Do you know the difference of like the urgent versus the non-urgent? Uh, do you have people speaking into your life? You know, do you are there people in your around you that are going to help you continue to grow in this area? Um, I would also say where it gets to the root of how this is gospel centered, we want to control our time. When we talk about time management at the table, do not hear us talk time control. Don't hear us say that. We're talking about stewardship here. But the reason we feel some of the weight of the conversation we're having, Jacob, I think it has to do with a little bit of what you were talking about earlier, is because we feel like we have lost control. Keller talks about counterfeit gods. Control is a counterfeit god that we worship in our lives, man. It's a baby idol, or it's a baby-making idol that banks a whole bunch of other babies. And when you feel like you have lost control, that is the idol that is fighting back in your own heart. It's the idol. And if you're worshiping something else besides the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, his name being Jesus, and you're worshiping control and you're giving in to more and more and more control, that is where you have lost the gospel-centeredness of not just time, but many other things in your life as well. Love the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind, and strength. I think some of the things that we're like aimed at have to do with our strength, has to do with how we number our days, how we're going to live our life and take steps and order and manage well some of these things that we're talking about. So I would love to like put a wrap on this, put a bow on this. If there's a closing statement or encouragement from each of you, how would you point at an encouragement to those listening?
SPEAKER_03I would say to when you're talking about your calendar, when you're talking about your priorities, I hope that as you're building that list, that God is that priority. And then as you're putting your time together and as you're starting to organize this, that you build faith into your schedule. You build faith into your time and you watch that might be scary, it might worry you, but you watch what God does with it. If you can do that, it'll build a confidence within you that he has this under control, that we are not under in that control. And in that moment, you're just gonna become a more confident person when it comes to your schedule, when it comes to your time management, because you know that he has you and that he will guide your day.
SPEAKER_02The rap for me is we're not human doings, we're human beings. And if we start with who God has said we are, that's where a lot of things fall into place. And when I have reminded myself, some days I fail at this, some days I don't. Most days I do fail. But when I remind myself, God has called me and has said this about me in his word. Therefore, I can now move in that act of faith, like you were talking about, Keelan, that it's okay to do what I have to do and to be present. And I mean, even Jesus in his life, he he says in John 17, uh, like he's not asking, hey, how do I fit everything in? He's talking about the work that the Father has given him. And when I look at the things that God has given me and understand my limits and that I'm a limited person, it like I mentioned earlier, is a depressurization of I don't have to have it all, but I just gotta focus on what's in front of me. Looking at the calendar, like you said, and saying, All right, where are the opportunities for me to make much of God and then go from there?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's good. I pulled up a quote by C.S. Lewis relying on God has to begin all over again every day as if nothing had yet been done. And that one always makes me remember grace. Like every day is a new opportunity to meet him and prioritize him. And you might, like you just said, have more days where you don't do that. I think we're all guilty of that. But he's literally waiting, like he's on the horizon, just looking for us to come home. And I just that quote always it's a great reminder that grace abounds. We're going to fail. We're not going to get this right, no matter how disciplined you try to be, no matter how much you try to do the time blocking and make the margin, like do those things, but also know that grace is sufficient. Like he paid the ultimate price. And, you know, we're we're just we have a faithful God no matter how much we fail.
SPEAKER_00No, that's rich. I would I would encourage too, just kind of off of that, uh, your spiritual life is not a compartmentalized life. You have one life and it all belongs to the Lord. The time, the energy, heart, soul, mind, and strength, it all belongs to him. But if you compartmentalize it, it will feel like a checklist or one of the things on your calendar. And if you miss it that day, then you feel like, oh no, the spiritual part of my life is off. Your work and your time and all of that still belongs to the Lord, and you can't honor him with it. I would say the healthiest and most God-honoring life isn't one filled to capacity, but it is one that is intentionally uh preserving emotional, physical, financial, all of the all of the time, all of those reserves so that we can faithfully love God and love people. That'd be it. That'd be it. Uh, we could sit here and talk for a very long time, you know. Like there are many things that we would love to continue to talk about, but because we appreciate your time for those that are listening, I'm gonna pray. And uh, man, if you've got something on your mind, a question that you have, man, send us an email at hello hello at bridgerchurch.com. Hello at bridgerchurch.com. And just send questions. Uh, we would appreciate it. It would be awesome. So, or just leave a comment on wherever you're listening to this. That's also helpful. But let me pray. Lord Jesus, I thank you so much that today, the day that we are currently sitting and recording this in, I believe that we're making the best use of our time because we're investing it. And someone is on the other end of this, just listening, saying, I need to take a step in this area. I pray for gospel fruit. Spirit of God, just multiply, be glorified. Thank you for my friends here. And uh I pray that it's been an encouragement to them as well. But Lord Jesus, we love you. We need you. We need you. We don't just need you, we desire you to help us walk in a manner that is worthy of the gospel, making the best use of the time. We pray this in your name. Amen.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for joining us for this episode of Encounter and Live. If you have any questions, need care, or would like to reach out to us, please visit BridgerChurch.com. We can't wait to meet you at our next gathering. Until then, Jesus peace, big love, and go live life in Him.